Imperfect Marketing

Kendra Corman [00:00:01]:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. I’m your host, Kendra Corman, and I am super excited to have Sara with me today because we’re going to be talking about being a better guest on podcasts. Sara is the founder and president of Favorite Daughter Media, a marketing agency dedicated to helping mission-driven businesses and creators use their outside voices. As a podcast producer, writer, and career creative, she can help you to embrace your story, develop your brand, and get your message heard by the right audience through strategic podcast guesting. Thank you so much for joining me. Sara.

Sara Lohse [00:00:41]:

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Kendra Corman [00:00:45]:

So let’s go ahead and talk about guesting on podcasts. So clearly you’re a guest on my podcast. I’ve been a guest on other people’s podcasts. Is there a right way to do this?

Sara Lohse [00:00:57]:

Absolutely. And it is something that a lot of people don’t really think about, I think, before they actually go on a podcast. And anytime I go on a show and my topic is talking about being a great guest, it’s always so much pressure because now obviously I need to be a great guest, so I’ll do my best. But I think people look at podcasting as a marketing tool, which they should. It is a fantastic marketing tool. It’s my favorite. And the only time that becomes kind of a bad thing is when they see it as an ad space or something that’s really transactional. So when you go on a podcast thinking, awesome, I get 30 minutes to talk about my company and sell my services. That is an ad. That is not a podcast. That is nothing anyone wants to listen to. And I come from a background of producing podcasts and I have seen so many of just the worst guests. I’ve heard them go on shows because the host had nothing else to release, even though they wish they probably could have scrapped the episode. So there’s definitely a right way to do it and it is not treating it as ad space.

Kendra Corman [00:02:10]:

Okay, so I’ve had a couple that were that way and it was difficult and I did not scrap the episode because I didn’t know really how to deal with it. So I guess as a host, do you have a suggestion on how we prepare our guests to be better guests?

Sara Lohse [00:02:34]:

I think there’s only so much the host can do. I mean, I’ve seen hosts that send out the questions ahead of time. I’ve seen them ask like, basically tell them what’s expected and say, please do not promote. We’ll give you time at the end to plug in whatever it is you’re trying to promote and not all the guests will listen. And it ends up being just a waste of everybody’s time, which is the worst part. So you can give your expectations ahead of time. But looking into other shows that guests has been on is probably going to be one of the best ways to determine if they’ll be good at what they’re doing because it’s kind of if they were good at it once, they’ll be good at it again. And I really hate saying that because I hate those times where it’s like you need experience to do something but you can’t do it until you have experience. It’s like the constant struggle of internships and it’s like when you buy a pair of scissors but you need scissors to open it. It’s just a challenge all around. So there are ways to go around it and make a bit of a media reel on your own, which I recommend any aspiring guests do for this reason. But look back, make sure that they have that personality that you’re looking for and see if they are able to just have a conversation that doesn’t feel like a transaction. Make sure that they’re leading with value. And another way, because I know you send out questionnaires for anyone that’s going to be on your show, have them list out the key pieces of value that they’re going to offer so that you can make sure that they have it in their mind of I need to be presenting something valuable to these listeners.

Kendra Corman [00:04:19]:

I think that that’s really important because there’s no point if there’s no value right in anything. So that’s really important. And I think going into any experience with what value you can add to their audience is key. You’re borrowing my audience right now, right? The people that are listening, that are tuning in. And if you share it, then I’m borrowing yours. And it’s important to both of us that we serve them reliably, right?

Sara Lohse [00:04:49]:

Absolutely.

Kendra Corman [00:04:50]:

Adding value is a great way, great way to advertise yourself and to show that you know what you’re talking about in a way that people will believe it because you’re proving it.

Sara Lohse [00:05:05]:

Absolutely. I think of going into any podcast opportunity as kind of a thought leadership approach. So this isn’t ad space, this isn’t marketing, this is thought leadership. This is sharing things that you have learned. This is sharing your perspective and your new ideas and letting other people learn from the things that you have done and the things you’ve experienced. Which is why I really lean heavily on storytelling and the power that lies in those stories because that’s the part that fuels the connections. And podcasts are all about connections. It’s all about building community and connecting with the host, connecting with the listener. So when you tell those stories and you’re able to create those connections, that’s how you build trust. That’s how I turn your audience into my audience and kind of steal them over. Don’t steal, borrow. But it’s all about having those genuine connections and leading with authenticity and offering something to the listener, offering something to the host and giving an easier job to the producer because they are the kind of unsung heroes in the world of podcasting.

Kendra Corman [00:06:17]:

Yes. I love my editor. He’s a big help. Okay, so let’s talk about growing your business through podcast guesting. You said this is about adding value, it’s not about an ad space. This is, again, thought leadership. From that perspective, how do you grow your business as a podcast guest?

Sara Lohse [00:06:44]:

Yeah, there’s a couple of ways that you can do it. My favorite one just goes back to what we’re just talking about. It’s adding that value. Because if you can talk about a topic that you are an expert on and if you can explain to someone how to do something, they will trust you. They will see that you know what you’re talking about. And people value their time. So it’s not just the time it takes to listen to the episode, but it’s the time it takes to put what you’re talking about into action. So if I’m going to go on to a show and talk about something that I could do for you, I’m going to present it as how you can do it for yourself. Because it’s not about me, it’s about the listener. So the thing that I hate the most with podcasts, the guests that go on shows is vagueness. So it’s like I’m giving you just enough to get the idea rolling, put it in your head that you want it, but not enough for you to do it without paying me. That is the worst nightmare of any podcast host. So when you go into it with here is everything you need to know to do this yourself. And then at the end, if you want me to do it for you, I’m more than happy to. Here’s how you connect with me, but you don’t need me to do it because I don’t know about you, but there’s nothing that I do that someone else can’t do themselves. I’ve just already put the time in to learn how to do it.

Kendra Corman [00:08:12]:

100%. I tell this to people all the time. People don’t hire me because what I do is rocket science. It’s not that they can’t do it. They don’t have the time either to learn how to do it or to do it themselves. And that’s what I do. So if they’re looking to learn how to do it in super detailed, spelled out way and get coaching with it, then I offer those services. And then my agency side has always offered done for you services to help people save time by actually doing it for them. And it’s a struggle, right? Because I don’t think a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs really see and understand that people can do what they do. They just choose not to. The reason they’re going to pay for it is because they don’t want to spend the time and effort learning it or doing it. And there’s nothing wrong with that. And you might do it way better because I will bet that you are a way better podcast producer than I am. And I’m okay with that. Do you know what? I’m when I grow my audience huge, maybe I can hire you or someone like you to do more for me with my podcast. But again, it’s not that people can’t do it. Maybe they can’t do it as well. But there’s a lot of value that you have in sharing your information, and they’ll remember that later.

Sara Lohse [00:09:52]:

I mean, there’s so many industries that just wouldn’t exist if people wanted to do everything themselves. You would not have lawn care companies because who doesn’t know how to push a lawn mower? Like, you wouldn’t have dry cleaners because we can all wash our own clothes. There’s so many things that we just wouldn’t exist. House cleaners, all of these things, if people were just like, no, if I can do it, I’m going to do it. People really think about, especially people in the business world, they think about what is my time worth and what could I be doing to make money in the time that I could be spent learning how to do this to eventually make me money?

Kendra Corman [00:10:32]:

I love that. I love those examples. I think that that is right on 100%. So thank you for that.

Sara Lohse [00:10:40]:

Yeah.

Kendra Corman [00:10:42]:

So I’ve talked about lead magnet on this, on Imperfect marketing before, because I love lead magnets, I recommend them to a lot of people. Actually, shockingly enough, I actually recently had meetings with two different clients where I didn’t recommend lead magnets because it didn’t fit their business. They’re not looking for strangers off the street, and it was going to be hard for them to create, and they didn’t necessarily want to be bringing that in. So talk to me about how lead magnets work with podcast. Guesting yeah.

Sara Lohse [00:11:12]:

And exactly like you said, they’re not one size fits all. So not everybody needs a lead magnet, but I do think everyone could have one, and there are always ways to make them. But with podcasting, lead magnets are so powerful for building a business through a podcast because that’s the way that you take that conversation and move it offline. Because a podcast is kind of a one way conversation. I mean, right now it’s me and you speaking together, but there’s people listening and they can’t weigh in. They can’t join that conversation. But with a lead magnet, it gives them that opportunity to take that conversation offline and it gives you permission to pursue that conversation. So when you make a lead magnet, it should be something that is kind of the next step in the conversation. So I’m here right now, and I’m talking about lead magnets. So of course I have a lead magnet. And that lead magnet offers 50 creative ways that you can build your own lead magnet because that’s that next piece of the conversation so I can explain how to use them and why to use them. But then if you want to put them into action and you need some ideas, I can offer you that as well, and you could take it offline. But the things that I think are the most important when it comes to using lead magnets for podcasting is to have a really strong call to action. That’s something that some people don’t really think about. And I always recommend that you actually buy a URL. Like, we have our website URL, we have that, we know it’s there. But if you can buy a URL specific to that lead magnet, it just makes it so much easier for the listener. Because if you’re going to give your website something else zero, that’s not easy to remember. These people, like people are driving or they’re doing something else. But if you can make a URL that’s really specific and just have it send to a landing page on your website, it’s easier to get there. And the fewer clicks, the better. But why it’s so important for that call to action is because a lot of times a podcaster will say, now, how can other people find you? How can they talk to you? Where can they find everything? You’re doing everything’s already on your website. So if you’re to say, oh, you can go to my website or you can find me on social media, this is my email address. You’re giving too many options. People don’t like options. People like you do this, this one thing. So that call to action, that URL is that one thing. Because if you go find my lead magnet, it’s favoriteleadmagnets.com. I follow my own advice. You go to Favoriteleadmagnets.com, you can find my email and my social media, and you can find my services. You can find everything on that website, but the specific page that I send you to is the one you’re looking for. So you don’t have to go dig around for the lead magnet that you’re looking for.

Kendra Corman [00:14:18]:

I love that. I love that idea. And I think, again, for Sarah, if you’re just listening to this, you don’t know if she spells her name S-A-R-A or S-A-R-A-H or how she spells her last name. Even for me, like with Kendracorman.com, Kendra is with a K, is cormann with a C or a K. Hearing it, you don’t necessarily know. Right? And so I love that idea for something like favoriteleadmagnets.com versus one of my lead magnets, which is Kendricorman.com, 30 or 30 days, the number 30 and then days. Do you see how long it took me to tell you that? Versus favoriteleadmagnets.com? That is a fantastic suggestion. Now, let me ask a tougher question. How do you manage the tech side of that stuff? So redirecting URLs sometimes can be a bit difficult for people that don’t consider themselves very tech savvy.

Sara Lohse [00:15:26]:

Yeah, there’s so much of it that can be DIY and then there’s so much of it that might not be, but there’s nothing that you can’t do by yourself. It just takes a little bit of learning. The tech side that goes into it is a little bit of kind of prior research and you’re going to need to have accounts on websites. So when I create a lead magnet, I usually use JotForm, which is basically just a form creating website. And that’s how I capture your email address and your name to put you into my mailing list. And that website plugs in really well on my website, so I just kind of plug it in and embed it onto the page. And then there’s another step of I have to connect JotForm with Constant Contact, because that’s where I grab all the email addresses so that I could send out those welcome emails and thank you for downloading this ebook that I put out. So it’s really important to find the websites that communicate really well together because then after that, it’s effortless. So it’s really just plugging it in one time and letting it sit. So there’s whatever you want to put the form through. I use JotForm, your email service of choice. I use Constant Contact, and they both work really well with WordPress, which is what I built my site in. And then I buy all my domains through GoDaddy and they’re super user friendly and their customer service is fantastic. So there’s a place in it where you go to manage your domain and it just says Start forwarding, and you put the address you wanted to send to. If you can’t figure it out, they have free customer service. I’m happy to help you, but you can do it yourself. It’s so simple. But once you have all of that.

Kendra Corman [00:17:23]:

Set up, GoDaddy is great. Customer service is fantastic. If you get stuck or you get into a bind, they are happy to help you and walk you through it and then test it to make sure it works. They’re amazing.

Sara Lohse [00:17:39]:

I’m impressed with any customer service that doesn’t tell me I’m an idiot, because usually it’s like, did you turn it off and turn it back on again? And I have to assure them, like, I’m a millennial. I’m not my 90 year old grandmother calling you. I promise I tried everything. It only worked because you’re on the phone. I do have.

Kendra Corman [00:18:02]:

Young people do not equal tech knowledge. I have two interns right now and one on the first week of the internship. I’m like, okay, well, can you share your screen with me and show me the error that you’re getting? Because we were trying to fix something remotely and didn’t know how. Never did that. Junior in college.

Sara Lohse [00:18:27]:

We’re pretty good at adapting to technology, but it’s not in all of our blood.

Kendra Corman [00:18:34]:

So just because they’re a millennial or Z or whatever else comes after that, doesn’t mean don’t make assumptions, because I know a guy who’s like, I think he’s eight. He might be 85. And he is more tech savvy than I am, and I actually consider myself fairly tech savvy. But no, he learns more about technology than I do, and I can’t keep up with him.

Sara Lohse [00:18:59]:

See, I can do anything within a browser, but once you put components in front of me and I have to put things back together, I tap out. Yeah, I’m calling Geek Squad.

Kendra Corman [00:19:11]:

Yeah, that’s where I call my husband. He can fix anything.

Sara Lohse [00:19:16]:

I’ll find one and call one.

Kendra Corman [00:19:18]:

There you go. Okay. So do I need a podcast to reach other audiences and spread the word about my message?

Sara Lohse [00:19:28]:

No, but it’s a really good way to do it. I think every business could benefit from podcasting, whether it’s as a guest or as a host. Do you have to do it? Of course not. But there’s so many reasons why you should, and the biggest one is how cost effective it is. So if you want to start a podcast, all you need is a voice. I mean, with today’s technology, it’s so easy. Like, yes, you can invest money and buy the fancy kind of mic that I have and get the nice camera and do all of that, but you don’t have to. You can start it with an iPhone, and there’s free hosting sites, and there’s so many things that you can do for free, but the reach that you have, the potential to have with it is just, like, unbelievable. You can reach people across the world just from talking into your phone, and.

Kendra Corman [00:20:30]:

It’S not as crowded of a space no. As other things are.

Sara Lohse [00:20:34]:

Yeah, there’s a fraction of podcasts compared to the number of YouTube channels, and people think of YouTube as the next big thing. It’s already far more saturated than podcasting, and it’s also an amazing tool. I love it. But podcasting, it’s so easy to niche or niche, however you want to say it, and make it really easy to be found and find people that relate to you. And I just think it’s easier to build community and build those connections. So that’s why I lean into storytelling, because I can give facts to you all day. I’m happy to. I have a background in finance. I could tell you all about Roth IRAs until you’re crying, but you can Google all of that. So with podcasting, it’s storytelling. It’s forging connections based on shared experiences and talking, not just about the facts on the subject you’re passionate about, but why you’re passionate about it and what you’ve been through in your life that led you to that point. And those stories are just so important because that’s how people get to feel like they know you. And that gets them to want to continue that conversation. It gets them to want to keep tuning in week after week to hear what you have to say, because they connect with you. And when you can connect with someone that runs a business, you’re more likely to want to support that business.

Kendra Corman [00:22:08]:

Yes, I love that. I love podcasting. Personally. I had a podcast, then I had podfade where I stopped recording and it just went away. But then I started podcasting again, this time with a plan and a purpose. And actually I added in interviewing with guests and it’s been unbelievable. It’s been a super duper great experience. I love getting to meet new people and talk to them and learn what they have to share. I like it even when I disagree with my guests because we can offer different perspectives so that people know that there isn’t always one right answer. And I love so okay, this has been a great conversation, Sarah. I have loved it. Before I let you go, I do have to ask you the question I ask all of my guests. This show is called Imperfect Marketing, because as we all know, marketing is anything but perfect. So what has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?

Sara Lohse [00:23:20]:

There’s been so many my marketing journey has been far from perfect. I think the biggest lesson that I learned is that you need to be authentic in everything that you’re doing. All the messages that you put out. Lean into authenticity. It’s going to make your work better. It’s going to make everything just feel more real and feel more relatable, and it’s going to make you more passionate about what you’re doing if it’s in line with your authentic values. So it’s going to improve every aspect of what you’re doing. So be who you are, accept who you are. Lean into authenticity, tell your story, and just don’t be afraid to use your outside voice. You don’t have to be quiet. If you’re trying to spread a message that is impactful and positive, just spread it and do it in a way that’s authentic.

Kendra Corman [00:24:18]:

I do love that. I love being authentic is extremely important. Being a good guest on podcasts, I can personally say is very good too, and very important. Again, it’s all about sharing value and adding value to that audience. And that’s really what you need to be looking for is how can you support the person that’s hosting you, right. And their audience so that they don’t be like, oh, well, that was a waste of time because I want them to come back to my show again, not leave because they thought it was a sales call.

Sara Lohse [00:24:52]:

Exactly.

Kendra Corman [00:24:52]:

That’s always good.

Sara Lohse [00:24:53]:

I’ve had people ask me, what’s the best way to thank a podcast host for having you on their show? And they expect me to say like, oh, send a mug with the logo. No, just continue connecting with them. Support what they’re doing. Share their content, interact with it online, listen to their show, tell someone else about their show. The best way you can say thank you is to just continue that connection and not make it feel like this was a oh, I love that.

Kendra Corman [00:25:23]:

I love that so much. There’s so much information that you shared. I really do appreciate your time. If you out there listening or watching on YouTube, enjoyed this and learned something from it, please rate and subscribe. Wherever you are, we’d appreciate it. It really does help our show, and that’s one way, as a listener, that you can help me too. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing you on another episode of Imperfect Marketing. Thank you all and have a great rest of your day. Bye.